General 4E Chat

I enjoy it, it has made party role a little bit more defied because of class focuses and specialties.
They have some nice new art work in all the books, which is always a good thing for the less imaginative.
WoTC is putting new books out constantly now, ( arcane martial and divine power) all of which tend to each class specifically.
Fire Cubes is also great.

Do you ever have NPCs get monster names wrong?
A favorite of mine is to have peasants come to the PCs for help with "raiding orcs and goblins" which turn out to be ogres and trolls.

"There's a rampaging elephant destroying our crops! It's huge! You have to help us!"
Well, you can't really blame them. This is a temperate zone. They've never seen an elephant before. Or the tarrasque, for that matter.

Ah yes, those wool-headed, temperate-zone peasants. When will they ever learn? You'd think eventually someone would wise up and leave to go to a land less temperate; a land where the climate allows monsters and denizens of every variety to thrive. Then, and only then, will the temperate-zone peasant fully understand the immense diversity of the world...oh wait a minute, the peasants in the temperate zone MOVED there in the first place to get away from all that crap. So everything's an "elephant" to them. Ignorance is bliss! Just shows their smarter than everyone else for picking a location that evil monsters are only tales to scare children. Think about the assholes living in the Underdark:

"Oh no, dad! Those darn drow are performing their rituals to Loth again and are trampling all over our fungus crops. Why don't they ever learn to share?"

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20090814

New and upcoming releases for 4th ed in the upcoming year.

Includes:

An Early Look at 2010
January starts off with 4th Edition's exploration of the Underdark
If 2009 was the Year of 2's, then 2010 is the Year of 3's.
March features Player's Handbook 3, bringing back psionics to 4th Edition.
Monster Manual 3 follows in April and Dungeon Master's Guide 3.
Martial Power 2 in February
June brings the Player's Strategy Guide


The Next 4E Campaign Setting

Where's Dragonlance 4E!

hahahhah, wow. what's next?

and as for dragonlance 4th ed....

On the gaming front, we've seen a few submissions for both 4th edition and Paizo's Pathfinder game system. This is all part of our commitment to not only provide gaming materials for play, but to also support Dragonlance in a variety of game systems. There are a lot of neat possibilities for Dragonlance gaming too.

For example, let's take 4th edition. We've not only got a new take on D&D, we also have some nifty new classes. The warlord especially works nice in Dragonlance. Let's say you wanted to represent the Knights of Solamnia using 4e Player's Handbook classes. Simple enough. You can figure that most Crown Knights are fighters, Sword Knights are paladins, and Rose Knights are warlords.

Or check out what's going on with Pathfinder. It's continued 3.5-compatible goodness with tons of new monsters for your games. You may have seen my various threads on the forums about how sorcerers need more differentiation from wizards. With Pathfinder, you can have that as sorcerers have tons of fun.

Point is, there is more than one way of playing Dragonlance. Our goal at the Nexus isn't to promote one system over another. Rather, it's to promote Dragonlance gaming, no matter the form.


http://www.dlnexus.com/news/newsletter/



so by the looks of it, Dragonlance is in the works.

Well, as for me, I won't be touching DL 4E with a ten-foot pole. 4E is just not D&D to me. On the other hand, if they come up with a campaign setting for Pathfinder, I'm all in baby!

On second thought, all of the Dragonlance 3.5 stuff is fair game again with Pathfinder. I'd love to run another DL campaign. Maybe when Mart's done with his Forgotten Realms campaign I'll fire up the DL once more. Would anyone be interested in playing?

as answered o the other topic, yes.

i'm putting this here only because it uses 4th ed game play (at will powers).

http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/20/surfacescapes-puts-dungeons-and-dragons-on-surface-makes-your-d20/

Rikan wrote:

i'm putting this here only because it uses 4th ed game play (at will powers).

http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/20/surfacescapes-puts-dungeons-and-dragons-on-surface-makes-your-d20/

Thank you for posting the link. Now, having said that, I'm going to say this as plainly as I can--fuck this.

Our world is replacing imagination with flashy graphics. I'm here to tell you that no computer engine will ever be able to replace a well-written story with vivid description. For the past six years I have witnessed class after class--student after student--who lacks creativity and imagination by the boatload because of the fact that their minds weren't fostered to create; to stretch, to conceive, or to imagine. Instead, they play videogames and watch movies. All aspects and modes of story enter their mind as opposed to forming there. When it comes to writing a story they have no idea how to even begin--the creative muscle in our society has severely atrophied. (Read this and you'll understand from a much more eloquent writer: http://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-Death-Discourse-Business/dp/014303653X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256265767&sr=8-1 )

I even hate using laptops at the gaming table.

Keep my D&D analog.

I don't know.

That argument is a bit like saying we shouldn't have made/watched the Lord of the Rings movies, because our imagination should have been adequate enough when reading the books.
Whether anybody feels that the movies are better than the books, or vice-versa, I think everybody can agree that BOTH are awesome.

Basically, I don't see why we can't have all the flash and still stimulate our imagination.


I think technology can have its place in the realm of gaming that has traditionally been reserved for pen and paper. The problem is that current technology just isn't good enough yet. Until it's fully immersive, it's just a watered down version of our imagination. Consider however, a distant future where we possess technology like the Star Trek holo-decks. That kind of tool in the hands of a creative DM could viably match or surpass the tabletop experience. Clearly that's a stretch of the point, but advancements like the one linked above are steps in that direction.

Granted, this argument is being made by somebody who sleeps on the curb when new gaming consoles are released, and has a Kanji translator just so he can play Japanese imports....so my position on the video-gaming of D&D might be a touch biased...

I like the points you make. However, I think there are plenty of sci-fi stories out there that basically argue what I'm saying--that technology can easily take the place of imagination. Have you seen Demolition Man? Virtual tech replaces sex. How does technology stimulate imagination when the imagination's not needed? The holodeck is a great example of this.

I'm biased too. As a teacher I see a severe lack of creativity among students. Imagination is no longer fostered--all fantastic imagery comes from the tv in the form of movies and video games. Why read Lord of the Rings when you can watch the movies? That last sentiment isn't my own, but my studenst. I've taught The Hobbit for two years now and the students cry and complain that we should just watch the movie because the book is a waste of time. They don't want to think because they know that technology can do the visualizing for them. They don't care that the film is another person's vision (Peter Jackson). They don't mind not thinking for themselves.

So yes, my position is horribly biased too.

please forgive my use of imagery here but i found this to be amusing, and partially true.



but for the tech war. I believe that technology is a great and often handy tool to use but not to rely on.

Haha! Those comparisons are great.
...damn, I want to go play Castlevania now....or maybe Castlevania II...

if you want, I think i have the Rom downloaded with all of them.

haha...I've got it covered.
Playing vids is like my second job, and I couldn't show my face in public if my library didn't contain those classics.

I always used to compare 2E to Dragon Warrior.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Warrior

that looks amazing

http://blog.microlite20.net/2008/11/20/what-if-4e-came-before-3e/

A great review, where the author pretends that 4e came before 3e and how it affects gaming.

reposted for your convenience.

In a strange parallel universe where the laws of book publication are twisted, 4th Edition D&D came out before 3rd Edition. Through a temporal digital wormhole I have received a review of 3rd Edition D&D from the perspectives of a long-term 4e D&D player called “The Gray Wolf”. I submit it here, unedited, for your perusal.

It’s been a long time coming, but at last I have the latest Edition of the core D&D rulebooks in my hands. I know there’s been a lot of speculation and rumor on the internet about whether the Powers system has survived the revision, so let’s deal with that first.

Powers. Are. Gone.

Yes folks, in this Edition there’s no Powers at all. The good folks at Sorcerers of the Coast have listened to player feedback. While Powers are great for teaching newer players how to play the game, their “cookie-cutter” nature meant that attacking with the same 4 or 5 “kewl Powerz” all the time got boring, fast. Instead, you’re on your own and encouraged to actually role-play through the combat, describing each swing and attack as you see it in your mind’s eye. While that’s always been possible with Powers, few folks did, instead just saying “I use Riposte Strike” and letting the role-play fall by the wayside. In this Edition you’ve got your character, your sword and your imagination. It’s…. liberating.

No Powers also means there’s less of a need for a battlemat and minis. Whilst that style of play is possible – and encouraged – by the ruleset, it’s also very easy to play without as an entirely “in your head” experience. Congratulations to SoTC for creating a truly Internet-friendly Edition of D&D. This is a game that can be played via IRC, email or even Twitter. Thank you thank you thank you!

It is also an Edition of D&D that steps away from the combat-intensive and more console-gamey style of play and gives us a purer and (dare I say it?) old-school rpg experience. The skill list has been expanded to include skills that aren’t directly applicable in combat including (at last!) Ride. We’re also given the meta-skills of Craft, Perform and Knowledge which further subdivide depending on type of craft, performance style or area of Knowledge. Arcana, Nature, History, Religion and Dungeoneering all fall under the Knowledge meta-skill, and they’re joined with Architecture, Geography, Nobility – or anything else you can imagine. All in all, the expansion of the skill list means character generation can focus as much on what the character can do outside combat, as well as in the thick of battle. I like.

On to the specifics themselves.

In the Players Handbook we’re given 7 Races with a few changes to the line-up. Eladrin are (thankfully) gone, having been subsumed into a single Elven race entry. If you want to play Gray Elves (the new, and IMHO better name for Eladrin), you’ll find them in the Monster Manual instead. This fixes the “too many elves!” criticism of the PHB. We still have half-elves though, and they’re largely the same diplomats who walk between the two races we known and love.

More surprisingly, Tielflings and Dragonborn have also failed to make the cut, having been replaced with the Half-Orc and Gnome. I suspect that the Gnome’s popularity has elevated it to core Race status, and it’s good to see the Half-Orc there too as a noble savage – again, this shows that this Edition’s focus is on role-playing rather than kewlness. Still, the cynic in me expects there’s plans for supplements all about the “missing” Tiefling and Dragonborns in the near future.

When it comes to classes there’s – get this – ELEVEN of them, right from the start, including the Druid, Monk and Barbarian! The Warlock and Warlord are gone, though as with the Dragonborn I’d expect to see there return soon.

One word of warning – characters in this Edition of D&D are a LOT less powerful that we’re used to! A 1st level character will have only a handful of Hit Points and there’s no fiddly Healing Surge tracking to keep him alive. According to the designers that’s intentional at it opens up a whole new avenue of gritty, low-level, street-level play between levels 1 to 4. If you want to play a character comparable in abilities to your existing Edition character, start at 4th level.

Me, I’m excited by the possibilities of street-level play where the players must rely on their wits rather than swish Powers to solve a situation. Bring it on!

Over in the Monster Manual, things have changed too. We’re given far more information about the ecology and nature of each creature, and even without Powers the statblocks have doubled in length! I’m not sure this is a good thing, and it certainly looks much more complex to create your own monsters in this Edition. I’d expect more GMs to try it, once, then stick to what’s on the page. Oh, and Dragons are SCARY! We’ve got them right back at the top of the tree again just where they belong. They look a lot more complex to run than the Dragons we know and love, but that at least should solve the problem of every scenario ending with a Dragon Fight

Finally, there’s the DMG. It’s a good, solid tome but seems to be lacking somehow. There’s no ready-made setting, no ready to run dungeons and nothing to kickstart the game right form the start. What we do have is the Magic Items here instead of in the PHB. In some ways that’s a good thing because it means the DM can keep their secrets all to himself, but I know the players are going to miss picking their magic goodies for higher-level characters without the GM looking over their shoulder.

One last mention has to go to the Open Gaming License. SoTC have created something truly remarkable by opening up the entire game system (barring a few proprietary name and terms) to third-party developers. This, more than anything else, is going to drive the RPG industry forward for years to come. It’s forward thinking like this that has put SoTC right at the top of the industry, and it’s what will keep them there. I pray they never change.

Overall, this Edition of D&D is one to watch. Less combat focused, more role-playing intensive and….. dare I say it….. more fun?

Only time will tell.

-Greywulf

Only too true. Screw WotC. They lost my loyalty with 4E. That's why we're playing Pathfinder now. Paizo realized that there's a VERY devout following of 3.5ers and cashed in on it. Bravo. I give them kudos just for recognizing how dumb WotC is.

so harsh...

Rikan wrote:

so harsh...

So true....